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Pole Building Wall type


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#21 Daniel Zanoli

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 07:43 AM

Derrik this old wore out carpenter has no idea how to make a screen shot of my wall profile... :huh:  Keith... help..    I'm sure you smart guys out there can improve this wall. When creating this wall you have to create a non bearing wall the same type and 86 (get rid of) the beams and replace with a girt. (no beams on the gable wall)

Then if you want any different heights than 12' you have to create a new wall and adjust the height and your girts and beams to match. Terry the 2 tone wall is awsome. Great Idea. I'm gonna work on that.  



#22 Keith Almond

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 06:46 AM

I use a Screen Capture utility called ASHAMPOO SNAP ... you can download a free copy from here ... https://sharewareons...way-coupon-sale ... which will allow you to capture just about anything you want.


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#23 Daniel Zanoli

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 04:16 PM

Thanks Keith I'll try it. 



#24 Guest_Derrik Bauer_*

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 04:20 PM

Daniel sent me the file for his wall, here is the screenshot of the definition.  Thank you for sharing!

 

 

 

 

 1.jpg



#25 Paul Tacy

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 07:04 PM

Daniel, your wall definition looks great!  Thank you for sharing.

Just some thoughts on the top LSLs.  You show the outside LSL let into the 6X6 post so it bears directly on the post.  To my mind, that's perfect.  The inner LSL looks like it's bolted (?) to the post.  Looking at the Weyerhaeuser span tables for their LSLs , it appears that a single 1 3/4" X 11 7/8" member - the one on the outside - would carry the load, assuming: 1.  the width of the building is 30', and 2.  the snow load is 55 Lbs/sf (that's our snow load in western Mass.  That amounts to 1,050 Lbs per lineal foot of beam.  Different conditions, of course, would require a different member.

So the inner LSL is just going along for the ride.  That's ok if it serves some other purpose, but not needed for carrying the roof load.  As a note, here in my neck of the woods, the LSL would need to bear on the post anyway to be considered an approved attachment.  Nailing or bolting to the side of the post is not allowed.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Paul



#26 Daniel Zanoli

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 07:47 PM

Thank You Paul,

I guess One of the funny sayings in the field is " dont start me lieing". :huh:   The double LSLs are the way its shipped from our lumber yards here in Northern Mich. We build a dozen or so polebarns here every summer and thats the way I've been taught to show them.. We sink (3) GRKs in on the inside LSL and our hurricane straps are nailed with hot galvys to the inner lsl.  30x40 is the average pole building here. Right now I'm drawing a 50x128x16'.  It looks like Noahs Ark when elevated. Gonna help build it as well. Were considered the upper peninsula here and I'm gonna check on the snow load and see why they ship all our barns that way.  Thanks again.



#27 Paul Tacy

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 04:48 PM

Daniel,

I think you should check your local snow load for sure.  The 2015 IRC Figure 301.2(5) (ground snow load) shows northern Michigan with either 50Lbs/sf or 60Lbs/sf.  At 60Lbs/sf, that's 1500Lbs/lf on the beam for a 50' wide building with an 8' beam span.  Weyerhaeuser span tables show that a single 1 3/4" X 14" LSL would work!  Beyond 60Lbs/sf, you may need to use an LVL or PSL.  A single 3 1/2" member could also work using a Simpson connector to set the beam on top of the post, or let in a 3 1/2" beam as you do with the current layout, or two 1 3/4" members let into the post - one on each side.  As stated, screwing the beam member to the post would not be allowed where I work.

However this shakes out, there's no reason to add expensive components that aren't needed.

I'd love to hear what you come up with.  Again, thanks for sharing your wall detail.  I certainly don't mean to nitpic.  I'm just really interested in how things get built to follow code in the most effective way.

 

Paul



#28 Daniel Zanoli

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 04:57 PM

Paul,

I'm all over it. I talked to the builder I draw the polebuildings for and hes the one buying the material not the homeowner...He wants to know more than the both of us put together. Thanks for that advise...LSLs are expensive and he doesnt need to by twice as many as needed, and I'll adjust that wall and xsec accordingly. Do you have software to figure out the loads?



#29 Paul Tacy

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 06:34 PM

Daniel,

First:  I am NOT an engineer, just an old carpenter like you.  I happen to also be a building official here in Massachusetts.

As a code official, like most, I require an engineered drawing of any engineered structural member like what we're talking about.  This is usually done by the supplier (lumber yard) generated through their software.  My due diligence then is to check this for accuracy.

Regarding software to figure the loads: no I do not have this.  But the span tables from any supplier, whether Weyerhaeuser, GP, Boise Cascade, etc. are good enough for me, especially for a minor residential accessory building.  The load calculations are pretty simple:  Take the total square footage the beam is to carry, assign the proper live load and dead load, divide by the span of the beam to get the load in pounds per lineal foot, and use the span table.  It's worth a few minutes digesting the information given in the company's literature to get a grasp on how it's done. 

I'm very interested to know how code officials see things in different parts of the country.  Maybe you could run this by your local building department to get their take on it.  Any further information from you on how you proceed would be great.

 

Paul



#30 Jim Johnson

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 08:55 PM

Weyerhaeuser, GP, & Boise Cascade all have excellant software for simple beam calculations for thier product.  I use it to make make sure what I am designing can be done.  I put notes in drawing stating that beam calculations must be done by the manufacturer or a licensed professional.  As Paul stated, the lumber yards here will do it for you.  Strucalc is a program "designed by engineers" that will calculate it also as well as other items like footings, collar ties, rafters, flitch plate beams, etc.. using most materials from manufacturers as well as sawn lumber.  It will also calculate load paths.  $600 for the full version.



#31 Daniel Zanoli

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 07:27 AM

I ordered the software lastnite. Thanks Paul for lighting a fire under my ... It needed to be done.  The lumberyards here also have to spec out the beams weather you call it out or not. I'm going to town (45 minute boat ride) Friday to speak with the person from the lumberyard who does this for us. I want to know why I've been climbing up the ladder w/a lsl on the inside of these barns the last 10 years...Thanks Jim its on its way.  I learned Softplan on my own, so I think I'll figure it out fairly easy.



#32 Daniel Zanoli

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 08:03 AM

We also take a 10' 2x6 and cut it in half at a 45, and nail it on both sides of the post between the beams and to the girts.

Attached Thumbnails

  • post braceing.jpg


#33 Paul Tacy

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 04:41 PM

Daniel,

Your knee braces (as we call them here) look great.  Are they intended to be structural for lateral bracing, to help support the beam, or some other reason?

Great place for the swallows to build nests, by the way.

It did cross my mind while discussing snow loads that WIND loads are a big deal here as well.  So inspectors look closely at shear wall bracing.  In your metal clad buildings, I guess that is accomplished by the connection of the sheets of sheathing/siding?  The knee braces certainly help, but I don't think an inspector in Massachusetts would rely too much on them, especially if they are only nailed top and bottom.  Same holds for any benefit to supporting the beam - definitely gonna help, but the inspectors may not give you extra points for putting them in without an engineer stamp on the design and connections.

What has been your experience with inspectors regarding this?  It may be worth asking them about all of this.  Maybe these are another item that you don't need to pay for and climb a ladder to install?

I'm very interested in knowing how you make out on Friday, and any discussions you have with your inspector.

 

Taking a boat ride to town really sounds like the life!

Do you just skate across the ice in the winter?

 

Paul



#34 Daniel Zanoli

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 05:17 PM

Paul,

We ride our snowmobiles across lake Huron. (5) miles. It sounds crazy but we really do it.  If were lucky we get a smooth freeze and can go around 40 -50 miles an hour. I have a utility sled I pull behind me when bringing groceries and yes building materials...  :wacko:  The braces are for the wall, something we put on the wall here in the UP.  I think their more easy to nail on the wall than to draw. lol  Our inspectors for the island are from the state.. Very easy to please believe it or not. I was trying to find a way to save the knee braces and the post together so I can install them together. Then copy block. (any help out there? )  Ship me an email and I'll send you a pic of the ice bridge at the halfway point. I tryed to put the file on this post but it was to large. My email add. is in my profile.  I think you'll like the pic.



#35 Luke Wright

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Posted 07 August 2022 - 02:35 PM

Keith,

 

Do you mind posting you file for the wall again? 

I believe it expired. 






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