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Trouble drawing roof

trace roof add roof add roof edges

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#1 Dave Pazyniak

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 06:04 AM

Good Morning,

I am having some troubles drawing a roof on an odd shaped plan.  First, my problem:

I am trying to generate the roof, that I sketched, shown in screenshot 8.  The main roof ridge runs left to right, and bears on the front wall at the garage, continuing across to the bedroom wing providing some cover at the front door.  On the rear, it bears on the long bearing wall with a reverse gable over the small bump out behind the garage.  I have tried tracing the roof, and adding a roof by selecting the bearing walls, all to no avail.  my most common error extends the bearing on the left all the way to the back corner of the house instead of the valley I need running to that point.  Any advice?

 

My question deals with screen shot 7.  Am I doing something wrong when my roofs typically look like the preview pane?  I can fix it by adjusting the heel height, but that seems to be an added step that I shouldn't need.

 

Thank you all in advance,

Dave

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  • Screenshot (8).png
  • Screenshot (7).png


#2 Keith Almond

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 06:39 AM

Dave, the roof can reference any bearing wall ... adjust the "lollipops" on the roof edge and snap it to the wall you want it to reference too. What exactly can you NOT make it do? That looks like a simple roof to produce.

 

Not sure what the area projecting at the rear is, but you're going to get some issues with the roof if it's full height.

 

Why are you doing the roof in pieces? What's the benefit? Why not do the whole roof in one shot?

 

If you have all your walls at the right height, just use auto-roof and adjust from there.

 

Yes, by the look of the preview pane you have some settings wrong. The top of the wall should be much lower in the profile. Most truss manufacturers use a butt cut of between 1¼" and 1¾" that will probably give a heel height around 5½" depending on pitch.


Keith

There are 10 types of people in this world ....... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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#3 Tom Rogers

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 07:53 AM

I agree with Keith.  I always do an auto roof first to see what it will look like.  Then play with the lollypops to adjust if needed.  Sometimes I get, what appears to be a flat room or some piece shooting off into space.  Most times I would say it is something wrong with the wall heights (floor system, garage slab, beams) , something that is not make the walls the correct height where I need them .  If after all that I still cant get it to work the I will go back and do it pieces.  Add the main body and then the reverse gables hips where needed.  Trace room usually works better (for me) than add roof.

 

Also make sure you have your roof settings the way you want them.  This is the most important part before doing any roof.  I use cantilever trusses or energy soffits so my settings are set for a "TOP to fascia" of zero. 


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#4 Tim Booth

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 08:47 AM

Did you put the drawing in "profile" mode and check to make sure the roof is not snapping to a wall that's the wrong height?  If I'm correct the roof automatically  finds the highest wall in the house.



#5 Keith Almond

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 09:33 AM

... If I'm correct the roof automatically  finds the highest wall in the house.

 

No, you're not correct. The roof snaps to every wall it's referenced too, regardless of height.

 

All walls at he same height on the plan show the same colour in roof mode, giving a quick visual reference for odd height walls.

 

TIP: Turn on PLATE HEIGHT in VISIBLE ITEMS > ROOF in ROOF MODE.


Keith

There are 10 types of people in this world ....... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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#6 Dave Pazyniak

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 09:38 AM

Here is what an auto roof gives me, after I pull the front door bearing and front window wall bearing out to match the front garage wall.  This is an existing split level house and the bedroom wing is up 4'-6", so I am just trying to get the roof over the main body correct.  This is just a small renovation, so I will not need any detailed 3D drawings, but I am trying to get a better handle on the roof mode while I am working on this.  The back of the house has two reverse gables next to each other, one for a sunroom that I would just show separately.  The bay also has a roof bumped out, and again I can deal with that once I get the basic L shaped roof to work.

 

I thought all I changes on my roof options was the pitch and overhang.  Do I need to recalculate the heel once I do that?

 

Thanks for helping a newbie!

Dave

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  • Screenshot (9).png


#7 Keith Almond

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 10:21 AM

Obviously, the roof isn't correct, based on what you say it should be, but if all the pitches are right and wall heights and locations are right, then you should be able to edge edit relevant areas to give what you need - Maybe even add some false gables, and use auto hole to cut the roof below.

 

If you change the pitch and the overhang, then yes, you may need to recalculate the heel height, or you can copy the top to fascia dimension from and existing wall and copy and paste that. However, based on the profile you showed, there's definitely something that won't work on site.


Keith

There are 10 types of people in this world ....... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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#8 Dave Pazyniak

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 10:34 AM

I'm closer, BUT...

 

Screenshot 10 shows my best effort yet, but I just can not get the gable on the left end of the house.  Shot 13 shows what happens when I change that end to a gable.  I just need to continue the ridge across to the gable, and have the bump out on the back be a separate gable, but selecting a point along that wall while outlining the roof just disappears once the trace is complete.

 

Screen 12 show the front, but I can not adjust the heel height to correct the bearing issue.  Turning energy heel on or off seems to have no effect.

 

Thanks for the tip on bearing heights!

 

Feeling pretty incompetent!  :(

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Screenshot (10).png
  • Screenshot (13).png
  • Screenshot (12).png


#9 Keith Almond

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 10:55 AM

Screenshot 10 shows my best effort yet, but I just can not get the gable on the left end of the house.  Shot 13 shows what happens when I change that end to a gable.

 

Just add a false gable to the left hand end, adjust width to suit and use auto hole to remove the roof below.


Keith

There are 10 types of people in this world ....... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Softplan user since version 5.5.2.5

www.homehardwarekingston.ca

#10 Keith Almond

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 11:00 AM

... but I can not adjust the heel height to correct the bearing issue.  Turning energy heel on or off seems to have no effect.

 

No it won't do anything.

 

Normally you would adjust all the roof parameters prior to drawing the roof. So adjust the parameters, draw a new temporary roof - anywhere, edit the roof and copy (CTRL-C) the top to fascia height. Delete the temporary roof. Edit the roof you need to adjust, and paste (CTRL-V) the top to fascia height in the relevant box.


Keith

There are 10 types of people in this world ....... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Softplan user since version 5.5.2.5

www.homehardwarekingston.ca

#11 Dave Pazyniak

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 12:13 PM

I'm starting to think I should just go build the roof instead of trying to get this through my thick skull! :)

 

The false gable and cutting the roof below helped (birds eye shot 15), but I still have lines where the false gable and main roof meet on the front of the house.  Those should merge into one plane.

 

Shot 14 shows a new 4 wall box with a roof.  all settings in place before I drew the roof, but the bearing is still wrong.  Even if that gave me an accurate heel height value, I an not enter anything into the heel height on the existing roof, the title is grated out and the entry box inactive...

 

Thanks for your patience, and sorry I am having such trouble with this...

 

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  • Screenshot (15).png
  • Screenshot (14).png


#12 Keith Almond

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 12:54 PM

It won't merge into one plane on the roof plan, as Softplan knows it's a separate roof. However, it should merge into one plane on the 3D.

 

I'm not sure why you say HEEL HEIGHT is greyed out, it's seems to be available in the screenshot you sent ... although to be fair, it's hard to tell. However, running a test, I am able to edit the Heel Height for a similar structure on my system.

 

2016.09.19_14h50m56s_001.png

 

so you're confusing me here a little ...

 

The roof eaves, obviously cannot be constructed like that, so you have some parameters that are going to have to change somewhere.


Keith

There are 10 types of people in this world ....... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Softplan user since version 5.5.2.5

www.homehardwarekingston.ca

#13 Keith Owens

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 07:30 PM

I would use trace roof for each section - you have more control of each section independently. In this case you should trace the main portion of the house then trace the jog at the left rear. Not sure what your final product is intended to look like but the images below is an example of what can be done. I have all the walls set at the same height, a couple holes cut, and a roof plane added to create a cricket. You'll also notice I have the gable at the right side of the main roof referenced to an object inside. That is just a beam which can be hidden from the plan - there are many things you can do to manipulate the way softplan creates the roof. While the way some of these sections tie into one another might not look pretty, it can be done, and would shed water as needed.

 

Roof 1.jpg

 

Roof 2.jpg

 

 



#14 Dave Pazyniak

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 06:16 AM

Thanks, Guys.  Tracing the separate roof sections cleans up the roof plan nicely. 

 

Last(?) question.  I started a new drawing, and drew 4 exterior walls.  Used auto roof.  Changed the pitch to 3.5, and my heel height is wrong (see attached screen shot).  Should Softplan be adjusting my roof to show the correct heel (meaning I have a system setting wrong, and no idea how to track it down), or do I need to calculate the heel for each individual roof and enter it manually? 

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  • Screenshot (16).png


#15 Keith Almond

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 06:23 AM

The HEEL HEIGHT is set in the parameters. you MUST check that the parameters are right BEFORE generating the roof. Once you have set the heel height and drawn the roof then Softplan keeps the TOP TO FASCIA height constant, so that the fascia runs through correctly.

 

If you change the pitch it WON'T change the heel height to suit in the model.

 

If you add multiple roof styles, set the parameters of each independently BEFORE you generate them.

 

Check with your local Truss Supplier what their standard BUTT CUT is for their Trusses. When entering ROOF PARAMETERS, if you use a SEAT CUT of 0" and then ADD the standard BUTT CUT to the heel height shown, then your HEEL HEIGHT will always be correct, for your manufacturers trusses. Softplan's standard butt cut is 1¾"


Keith

There are 10 types of people in this world ....... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Softplan user since version 5.5.2.5

www.homehardwarekingston.ca

#16 Dave Pazyniak

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 10:28 AM

Thanks, again, Keith.  So the only roof Softplan can draw accurately, without manually recalculating, is a 6/12 pitch?  As you can see in my screenshot, if I change the pitch, the heel is incorrect, before I generate the roof...

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#17 Tom Rogers

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 11:49 AM

Dave:

 

I think you have something not set correctly in your system settings.  I am sorry I don't do much with tails (my soffits are flush with plate heights) but I never have any issue.  you need to know where you want your fascia located relevant to the top of plate.  Set it for greatest pitch and then when go lower than that they should all match


"remember... what we are building today, should be what we want in the future"​
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#18 Keith Almond

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 12:22 PM

... Set it for greatest pitch and then when go lower than that they should all match ...

 

That won't work ... It should be the other way round. Set if for the shallowest pitch. If it gets greater then the heels only get bigger. If you do it the other way round, the heels get smaller until they don't work, and you have to then lift the fascia up!


Keith

There are 10 types of people in this world ....... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Softplan user since version 5.5.2.5

www.homehardwarekingston.ca

#19 Keith Almond

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 12:32 PM

... So the only roof Softplan can draw accurately, without manually recalculating, is a 6/12 pitch? ...

 

Or however you set your default options. As I said earlier.Softplan tries to keep the TOP to FASCIA height constant, throughout a project.

 

Again, the easiest way to recalculate correctly is use a SEAT CUT of 0" and then ADD the standard BUTT CUT to the heel height shown (Not a really difficult calculation ... especially if you use the built-in calculator), then your HEEL HEIGHT will always be correct.


Keith

There are 10 types of people in this world ....... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Softplan user since version 5.5.2.5

www.homehardwarekingston.ca

#20 Tom Rogers

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 01:35 PM

I stand corrected.  you are probably correct Keith.  Like I said I use cantilevered soffits so mine are pretty easy.  TOP to Fascia is always 0"


"remember... what we are building today, should be what we want in the future"​
Version 10 to Version 2024+ and beyond
www.residentialproductions.com

 

 





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