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Stair Rail Position Changing


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#1 Joseph Smith

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 07:43 AM

I've deselected cleanup, i've changed the posts positions and the rail STILL moves back to the location in the first image.  Usually happens after closing SP then reopening the project.  I've created a ticket on this last week.  #31298.  Now this week while showing the client the 3d the rail has moved, makes me look foolish.

 

This has been an ongoing problem for many releases now and i'm getting tired of it.

 

Shouldn't matter if i have a rail under another rail.  I've got cleanup off and post positions deselected, that rail SHOULD NOT MOVE.

 

Please fix!

 

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#2 Yvon Gonthier

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 07:53 AM

AGREED!


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#3 Philip Frank

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 08:36 AM

You ​have "Cleanup" selected in your 2nd pic. Is that what you have for your settings? You mentioned that you have it checked off in your post.



#4 Tom Rogers

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 08:39 AM

Absolutely.  So hard to have stacked stairs or show any normal rail situations that you see in the field.  A downside to Softplan.

 

Though I am not sure if other software has similar problems (Chief Architect, Revit).  


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#5 Keith Almond

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 08:56 AM

Stairs and railings are the items I spend more time than anything else trying to cleanup/fix. They just won't behave ... almost like they know better than you do what you want.

 

Most of the time I prefer to just draw railings on the plan, and to hell with the model!


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#6 Allen McDonnell

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 10:04 AM

Due to instability of stairs i typically do not draw them.  And very seldom do i hear anything from clients.  However, if producing marketing plans you obviously need to draw them.  I feel your pain.



#7 Martin Livingston

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 10:07 AM

Here is how I solved the problem. I use stacked stairs all the time and like to have a section of the wall below the stairs open with a rail. Once I have the lower rail located where I want it I move the grip off to the side where it will not associate itself to the main staircase and edit the post heights if required. Works every time. The first of the plan views show the stairs drawn with a 3D model and the other with my presentation 2D view turned on.

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#8 D M

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 10:18 AM

Questions I'm sure that have come up before, .. and I'm sure there are work arounds, solved long ago by many users, ..

 

Not that I'm a frequent modeler with the work I do, (so these are rhetorical questions), .. but it would be nice not to deal with some of the stair render issues, ..

 

.. for one, ..

 

Railing added to Stair via the Stair Edit, .. Left Rail, Right Rail, .. added

 

 

As a Default Railing for a given stair, ..

 

Why does the toe-rail not match the pitch of the stair .. ? .. it cuts into the bottom treads

 

Why does the top rail twist .. ?

 

It would be nice if the initial assembly of a rail was at least correct, ..


.. invariably, someone will have a simpler solution.


#9 Joseph Smith

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 10:27 AM

You ​have "Cleanup" selected in your 2nd pic. Is that what you have for your settings? You mentioned that you have it checked off in your post.

The reason cleanup is checked Philip, is because this is how it appears after i notice the stair has gone crazy.  Originally the setting is NOT checked.


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#10 Martin Livingston

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 10:29 AM

It looks like the newel is partially off the stair tread so it defaulted to resting on the landing. If you play with the height and position to allow for the riser height it should fix the bottom rail angle. Also, it would be unusual to use a bottom rail on an interior stair - was that intentional?


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#11 Joseph Smith

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 10:33 AM

Here is how I solved the problem. I use stacked stairs all the time and like to have a section of the wall below the stairs open with a rail. Once I have the lower rail located where I want it I move the grip off to the side where it will not associate itself to the main staircase and edit the post heights if required. Works every time. The first of the plan views show the stairs drawn with a 3D model and the other with my presentation 2D view turned on.

Martin, sounds like the rail problem occurs with you also.  I'll give this a try!  A solution at the programming level is far overdue.


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#12 D M

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 10:35 AM

Yes, the toe rail is intentional, ..

 

All I'm saying is, ..

 

If it's proper for the newel to be on the tread as you say, .. then I think the default addition of the rail (and components) should reflect that, ..  without having to adjust


.. invariably, someone will have a simpler solution.


#13 Joseph Smith

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 10:43 AM

Hay Martin,

 

since we're discussing railing, how do you handle bent rails when using a midpost.  This also need Softplan programming help.

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#14 Martin Livingston

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 10:55 AM

It appears that the rail positions are calculated from the center of a full newel and the edge of a half newel. The software sets the newel on the stair tread by default and this sets the height of the rail at that point. To eliminate any bends in the rails you need to make sure that the newels are located the same distance from the nosing of the tread they rest on. Typically I set the newels flush with the face of the riser. If your finished floor height does not line up with the top riser nosing the rails will be off by that amount because the newel (which sets the rail height) is sitting on the finished floor. A note to all the Canadian designers, the NBCC does not allow a break in the handrail in a flight of stairs.


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#15 Keith Almond

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 11:16 AM

.... A note to all the Canadian designers, the NBCC does not allow a break in the handrail in a flight of stairs.

 

Neither does the Ontario Building Code. The handrails must be continuous except at a change in direction.


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#16 Tom Rogers

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 12:17 PM

IRC code is not allowing a break either anymore.  At least in the states/jurisdictions that have adopted the latest code.  Most places are a few years behind


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#17 Joseph Smith

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 01:14 PM

thanks guys


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#18 Martin Livingston

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 05:44 PM

Neither does the Ontario Building Code. The handrails must be continuous except at a change in direction.

Only if that change of direction happens at a landing. A continuous, unbroken handrail is required at a winder. It gets expensive to install when you start using tall goosenecks.


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#19 Keith Almond

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 06:58 AM

In Ontario, if you have a newel at any change in direction it can be broken, otherwise it has to be continuous.


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#20 Martin Livingston

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 03:22 PM

In Ontario, if you have a newel at any change in direction it can be broken, otherwise it has to be continuous.

Something to look at for the next Nova Scotia Code


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