8 replies to this topic

[Verlin Klassen]

I know there has been discussion in the past on how to price for drawing, but my question is how to you deal with clients that go on and on with changes. 

Do you make your pricing high enough on every project for that? Do you put in your contract that your price includes so many revisions, or some many design hours? Or??

It could be a bit of a touchy subject. Maybe as a designer I should have come up with a better design to start with, or thought of and suggested some of the options myself. But you know how it is. You send the customer preliminaries and after you finally have the design about right he shows it to his builder and the builder has a good idea for a totally different type of roof structure. I don't think my rates are low compared to others in my area, but I find that on too many projects all the changes just eat up the hours.

[Dave Pazyniak]

I charge a s.f. rate for the design and construction docs, but I do not start the CD's until the client signs off on the design.  My agreement also calls for hourly charges for significant changes (after design approval)requested by the client, builder, engineer, or ARB.

 

Dave

[Verlin Klassen]

That is how I do it also, but I find that even in the design stage the changes can go on and on.

[Don Gibbons]

By the hour until they agree on the design. Changes while the drawings are in production are also by the hour.

[randolph cohn]

i charge a "flat fee" for the whole job from lot's of prior experience.

but

once they agree upon the design drawings and i start the construction docs,

 

any re-designing after start of con docs is "by the hour"

 

also stated in my simple design contract 

surveying extra w/ topo @ 2', site features, trees, etc, 

structural engineering extra, soils engineering extra, 

"interior design - meaning colors, fabrics, furniture, fixtures, extra , kitchen cabs / fixtures / appliances extra,

etc, etc, etc,  

note: i do the site layout on the provided surveyed site (without landscape plan)

note:  most of my projects have engineers, surveyors, interior designers, kitchen designers, landscape designers, 

all paid for by the client.

 

i've never charged by the sq footage or the construction cost.

[Tom Rogers]

I charge a flat fee based on square footage and services offered.  However if they change the scope of work or start making a lot of changes (because they just don't know what they want) I will charge an hourly change order

[JOHN PATTERSON]

I charge by the hour to do the preliminary design. Once the client approves the preliminary design I do a bid set of plans also by the hour. Once the client and the builder agree on a price for the project the clock turns off and I charge by the sq. ft. of living area to do the construction documents.

[Verlin Klassen]

Thank you all for your input. I am leaning toward charging by the hour for the design part of the projects. My experience has been that on jobs that were out of the ordinary and I just couldn't estimate how long they would take, customers have not been opposed to paying by the hour. There are always those people who want drawings done as cheaply as possible and who don't appreciate or understand what goes into a good set of drawings. I think that charging by the hour would weed out those customers and the people you work for will be those that come to you for who you are and what you can do for them.

[PAUL LADNER]

The first thing I do is pre-screen the client to see if their construction budget is in line with what they want to build.  If you’re not a builder and don’t have a realistic sense of what it costs to build then I suggest you use Hanley-Wood’s Cost vs. Value publication

 http://www.remodelin...-vs-value/2018/

to educate them and yourself on construction costs.  This is a good reference with realistic construction prices pegged to different areas of the country.

Once they come to terms with what they can afford to build I tell them my fee will be about 8-10% of the construction budget.  That’s on top of the construction cost.  I charge by the hour, but my experience has shown that percentage is pretty accurate. 

If they think that’s too much I wish them well and go on my way.  They may save some money on the front end, but inevitably it bites them on the back end during construction.  Good design and well put together plans generally make a more cost-efficient build.

 

In my proposal I let them know how many revisions they can have before I they start going over their design budget.  I get them to sign-off on the design before starting the working drawings.  If they re-design after that they know it’s going to cost them more.

Most of my work is remodeling, so a fair amount of time is spent in the as-built drawings.  I take very little for granted in this area. These older buildings have some weird wall assemblies and off-beat framing.  The design detailing of the new work needs to mesh with old.

The design work includes daylighting analysis; lighting design; DWV and HVAC ductwork routing plans; detailed interior elevations - especially of kitchen and bathrooms; and carefully going over the engineering plans to make sure they’re practical and buildable.

 

In my agreement I also spell out that any work with the Planning Dept is by the hour and is not included in the design estimate.  I let them know that the preconstruction costs (design fees, engineering, surveying, Title 24 stuff, and Planning Dept fees) may run to 12-15% of the anticipated construction expense.  Better to have an informed client prepared for the cost than someone whose wringing their hands wondering how they’re going to afford it mid-way in the process.