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Heel height option


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#1 Kristopher Morris

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 01:49 PM

Hello,

Is there any way you can provide an option for the heel to be calculated plumb from the exterior face of stud...?

Using the default location causes different heel heights each roof change, were as pivoting at the Face of Stud keeps the heel ht. the same......

As a standard I have never started my roof design at the outside edge of overhang.

I typically adjust the overhang to get gutters to align unless the design specifically requires consistent overhangs.

 

 

Thanks

Kris



#2 Dennis Hilborn

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 01:56 PM

The problem we have here is that the heel height is a variable and the eave height is locked.  In my opinion the heel height should be lockable.  Changing the heel height in my area is extremely rare.



#3 Mark Petri

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 02:12 PM

When stick framing around here, it is most common to have the inside of the rafter seat cut align with the inside face of the top plate. That and the final rafter depth typically drives the rest of the math. Plus, with our insulation requirements, we typically do not have to worry that the rafter birds mouth cut will be too deep. So, I often set my rafter depth, then set my seat cut (to width of wall top plate - most often 5.5") then everything else is what it is. If I am working with trusses, I need an energy heel for R-49 insulation. So, I set the heel at 16" for most of the projects I work on. That said, I try to have my main roof pitches at that heel height. Then, any secondary pitches are adjusted and automatically change if the same overhang is kept. Most often I will try to have the smallest heel height be that 16" and work up from there, but sometimes we get creative with insulation options (more so on remodels) to try and avoid extra trouble for the contractor.


Mark Petri

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#4 Keith Almond

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 03:14 PM

The problem we have here is that the heel height is a variable and the eave height is locked.  In my opinion the heel height should be lockable.  Changing the heel height in my area is extremely rare.

 

Whereas, we always have the eaves height locked and the heel height variable ... horses for courses.


Keith

There are 10 types of people in this world ....... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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www.homehardwarekingston.ca

#5 Dennis Hilborn

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 05:23 PM

Whereas, we always have the eaves height locked and the heel height variable ... horses for courses.

I'm not saying that one way is better just that it would be very nice to have a click box for a choice.  On some roofs I spend half my time just trying to put the heel height back to where they should be.  Or ignore it and my drawing are WRONG.



#6 Brent Hyndman

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 02:00 PM

This topic has been raised before in the Beta forum.

 

In order to maintain fascia positions we currently hold the Top to Fascia and Overhang values through a pitch change.

 

A suggestion was made at that time to allow different options to be locked.



#7 Kristopher Morris

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 02:22 PM

Thanks for the replies.

I started in 1992 and mostly did stick framing with seat cuts and such. Now with advancement in truss design I use trusses as much as possible,

but certain situations still call for different methods...Rafter vaulted great rooms, etc...

 

With energy heels it is nice to set a fixed height....12", 14", 16" and not worry whether the software changed it....

Frustrating that I am supposed to be saving time with SP but wasting some always cross checking.

Especially during the design process were one might be trying different looks after establishing the main portion of the roof.

 

Just sayin'  :)

 

Still love Softplan. Currently producing my first 2 projects fully in Softplan. (after owning SP for 5 years)

Really would not care if I ever open Autocad again!!!


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#8 Keith Almond

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 07:05 PM

I used AutoCAD for a 10 year period, but haven't used it for 10 years now. When I look at it now, I can't remember how to use it!
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Keith

There are 10 types of people in this world ....... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Softplan user since version 5.5.2.5

www.homehardwarekingston.ca

#9 Joseph Smith

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 01:38 PM

This topic has been raised before in the Beta forum.

 

In order to maintain fascia positions we currently hold the Top to Fascia and Overhang values through a pitch change.

 

A suggestion was made at that time to allow different options to be locked.

 

http://softplan.com/...of-heal-height/


Joseph A. Smith

http://granitedesigngroup.com

 


#10 Kristopher Morris

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 07:53 PM

Hello all.

Yes I see the previous thread and it ended with out result.....

 

I have only done a few designs over the last 25 years that the eave line alignment was the driver behind the design. (Farm/ ranch styles with wrap around porches)

Most of my custom homes have multiple plate heights, a few different roof pitches and varying overhangs.

This occasionally forces different heel heights if the roof ties between main and upper floors.

But that is my choice not because my software can't do it.

 

I see that there are several different approaches but at the end of the day the software should not dictate my design.

 

So seeing we all have different requirements a solution is needed.

Some type of variable to set as the dominant controller - eave or heel - would make things more functional for all..........

 

The "Lollipops" could have that variable so if you have multiple conditions on one project you can control it from each wall line???

 

Not trying to be a pain in the @#$....!!!

 

Just frustrated as I am trying to meet a deadline and when designing the roof / elevations I try different looks but things get changed that were not supposed to.

And the heel vs eave situation is what is causing it.

 

Now I have to do an all-nighter and use AutoCad to draw the elevations tonight for my meeting in the morning.

 

Thanks

Kris



#11 Gary McKeon

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 11:25 PM

I feel your pain Kris. It can be very frustrating at times and this is one of those areas. 



#12 Dennis Hilborn

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 08:23 AM

Hello all.

Yes I see the previous thread and it ended with out result.....

 

I have only done a few designs over the last 25 years that the eave line alignment was the driver behind the design. (Farm/ ranch styles with wrap around porches)

Most of my custom homes have multiple plate heights, a few different roof pitches and varying overhangs.

This occasionally forces different heel heights if the roof ties between main and upper floors.

But that is my choice not because my software can't do it.

 

I see that there are several different approaches but at the end of the day the software should not dictate my design.

 

So seeing we all have different requirements a solution is needed.

Some type of variable to set as the dominant controller - eave or heel - would make things more functional for all..........

 

The "Lollipops" could have that variable so if you have multiple conditions on one project you can control it from each wall line???

 

Not trying to be a pain in the @#$....!!!

 

Just frustrated as I am trying to meet a deadline and when designing the roof / elevations I try different looks but things get changed that were not supposed to.

And the heel vs eave situation is what is causing it.

 

Now I have to do an all-nighter and use AutoCad to draw the elevations tonight for my meeting in the morning.

 

Thanks

Kris

Just curious as to why you are drawing the elevations in autocad. 

I have done that once or twice when working with someone who is very controlling as to the way the drawings look.  But what I did is still genereated the elevations in sp then edited the linework and layer setup in Autocad.



#13 Kristopher Morris

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 08:55 AM

Hi Dennis,

Only had the evening to get this ready for a review meeting.

My first attempt at a full project in SoftPlan.

25 yrs on ACAD and I don't have to think, just draft.....

 

While I have had SP from V14 I have only used it for Mass studies and a general feel for non 3d thinking clients.

 

Finally back to doing my own thing again so I want to go SoftPlan only!!!.....

 

Just hard to do design and production at speed when not proficient yet on platform.!

 

LOL. My own doing :)



#14 Dennis Hilborn

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 10:45 AM

Hi Dennis,

Only had the evening to get this ready for a review meeting.

My first attempt at a full project in SoftPlan.

25 yrs on ACAD and I don't have to think, just draft.....

 

While I have had SP from V14 I have only used it for Mass studies and a general feel for non 3d thinking clients.

 

Finally back to doing my own thing again so I want to go SoftPlan only!!!.....

 

Just hard to do design and production at speed when not proficient yet on platform.!

 

LOL. My own doing :)

I understand.  That's where I was about 18 months ago.  I love the ease of getting a model with SP but I severely miss the editing features of Autocad.  AND AUTOLISP!!!!!!



#15 Jason Bishop

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 10:03 PM

Don’t know if this helps, but you can edit each individual roof edge and edit the Heel Height to whatever you need.
Maybe I’m not fully understanding the issue.

#16 Gary McKeon

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 10:45 PM

Part of the issue Jason is that those roof edges don't always stay where you put them. Set it the way you want, go do something on a different edge and come back only to find your previous edge edit changed- usually the heel ht. 

Another frustrating aspect is having to change EVERY SINGLE roof edge to not be a bird box. Damn! And if you are manipulating things trying for a certain look the bird box can come back to life! A gross waste of clicks!!!!


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#17 Dennis Hilborn

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Posted 15 June 2019 - 07:42 AM

Don’t know if this helps, but you can edit each individual roof edge and edit the Heel Height to whatever you need.
Maybe I’m not fully understanding the issue.

The way framing is done in my area, the heel height almost always stays the same and the eaves are what move up and down.  So if I don't go back and edit the heel height my roof and elevations are wrong.  That's not a huge problem except in one case.

Right after I started using SP I didni't know about the heel height problem.  I drew a set of plans and  it appeared that the soffit was ending just above the window head.  Just room for a piece of trim.  When built there was actually about 6" over the window and the customer was pretty upset that "it didn't come out like the picture". 

It's an issue that affects quite a few of us that should be an easy fix, be we can still dream. 



#18 Keith Almond

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Posted 15 June 2019 - 11:42 AM

Just to get back to the original question, and because I'm extremely anal ...

 

... Is there any way you can provide an option for the heel to be calculated plumb from the exterior face of stud...?

 

That's exactly where and how the heel height is calculated!


Keith

There are 10 types of people in this world ....... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Softplan user since version 5.5.2.5

www.homehardwarekingston.ca




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