3 replies to this topic

[Todd Wacome]

I've seen several posts over the years asking about this but never followed it through enough to see how close SoftPlan can 3D basic Andersen casements.  All the series look similar from outside, with the clad frame of the window projecting out 1-5/16" beyond the frame/nailing fin which sits on the sheathing allowing 1-5/16" for Siding, Stucco, Wiindow Trim etc.

 

Pella is similar so are all the casements we use.

 

I have purchased thousands of Andersen casement windows and I don't know how to draw them accurately in SoftPlan.

 

One gets the impression that because there is a manufacturers library that choosing the window in that library will show it accurately in 3D much like choosing a Kohler toilet out of the manufacture library but that is not the case at all.  The library for opening is full of fields that have nothing to do with the specific brand of the windows and the geometry other than the unit width and unit height.  The Rough Opening is in there too, and you can populate fields that would save you time compared to inputting a window of a chart but the library is really just populating fields for you as far as I can see and the very basic geometry is driven by the Opening Options under the Drawing or Project options.  These options seem to be limited to Sash, Frame, Bead and a few other items.

 

With an addition I'm drawing now the Andersen Casements are shown with the sash set way in from the exterior stucco plane and in fact the glazing and clad frame should both be proud of the exterior stucco plane as in the photo on left in the comparison image I've provided.  My 3D has the sash set way in like the bottom sash of a double hung - I can't seem to pull it out.

 

Is there anybody in the community that would be willing to describe how to fill in all the menus including the drawing options and anything else needed to do the very best that can be done to show an Andersen, Pella, Marvin, etc window as accurately as SoftPlan can show it?  I think that would be a great service to many and I'm at my wits end I can't do it.

 

In my SoftPlan Window  I've made the frame 9" to try to project the window clad frame outboard of the Exterior stucco but once I enter a number beyond 8" for a frame width the frame projects beyond the inside.

 

I've added an image with a bunch of snips for context of what I'm trying to do and not being able to tie it together.

 

I've seen it mentioned that to get an accurate looking window you'd have to draw it as a symbol and link it to a DWG type file.  Please don't respond saying that unless it is the case and you can describe how to do it clearly.  I'm very good at importing DWG and Sketchup files to make symbols of light fixtures and all kinds of things with glass and so forth.  I don't see how you can do that with windows so if you know please share.

 

Thank you.

Attached Files

•  Softplan windows.pdf   396.11KB   36 downloads

[Derrik Bauer]

If you adjust the "Frame Offset" you can have the unit protrude out to be flush with the exterior wall surface.  You can't go further, but it's better.  The inside shows the sill more accurately as well.  In my example, my wall thickness is roughly 11" so my frame offset is greater than would be for a 4" or 6" wall.

 

 

 

Attached Files

•  1.jpg   72.83KB   0 downloads
•  2.jpg   61.42KB   0 downloads

[Todd Wacome]

I'll update this because I've learned a little.

 

Thank you for the frame mention in the prior post.  That makes it look a little better.

 

It seems that the opening tools are just going to put a slab in the center of the opening whether it's a window or a door, and this is going to be at a fixed thickness within that space, you can't move it toward the interior surface of the wall or the exterior surface.  For example switch a door swing on an exterior door and in plan view it will shift the slab so that it is where it should be toward the exterior where it has to hinge from or interior if you reverse swing and that will show up toward the interior surface great in plan as it should.  It has to that's where it hinges from and it shows that accurately.  In 3D the slab will show up in the middle.

 

The Elevation Openings concept for doors and windows has always been difficult for me to grasp.  It is a clever concept as you get to draw almost anything in elevation view in 2D line quickly and then SoftPlan sort of knows what's glazing, and kind of creates a 3D internally, giving some relief to what you've drawn around the glazing, maybe a half inch or three quarters inch proud of the glazing and it does a good job.  From there that slab seems to be what's in the middle of the door or window and the system/project/drawing options take over filling in around it with the sash, bead, base, etc, and the frame around it.  We don't have any control of the profiles.  The opening symbol is not the same as the elevation opening symbol.  The opening symbol - where you may name it "Andersen C145" is just keeping track of size and some options like grille choices and a whole lot of other things about the window, but not anything about the geometry of the window at all.  It simply points to whatever elevation opening it should generally look like and when it makes a 2D elevation it will use the 2D lines of the elevation opening, and in 3D mode it will use the glazing in according to what was set up when the elevation opening was drawn sort of what I called the slab.  Then around that are the thick cubes I am objecting to which look like basic plastic windows, just cube shapes which represent the bead, the sash and the frame- chunky.

 

I check with tech support and it seems there is no way to do much more with the openings and there is no way to make the opening or glazing show proud of the siding or any wall material in any way.  A little frustrating because the wall material butts the side of a casement window in real life and the glazing is usually proud of the wall surface as well. 

 

So with all that said I still have to say I am impressed with what the program is doing - letting you draw elevation openings quickly and use them in any window symbol you want or want to create.  It's what I love about SoftPlan, being so fast at getting the job done quickly and with few keystrokes and clicks.  And as far as construction documents go they are precise because there is no limit to what you are drawing in 2D use all the lines and curves you want, and the 2D plan will show things clearly, casing width for example based on your drawing options if not overridden by your symbol.

 

The problem is that with all the super realistic 3D that we're starting to be able to enjoy and leverage the windows look primitive compared to anything else and not realistic at all.  By being able to control the trim around the INSIDE of a window including window sills and aprons with profiles that show beautifully the windows really look great from the inside.  The last job we did we modeled several different custom profiles for a customer very easily, not 5 minutes each.  Spin that 3D around to the outside and it looks wrong:  https://www.wynwood....RIM;PHBB148.HTM   this took only seconds to differentiate the interior trim on the 4 windows shown.

 

And again I have to say that I like where SoftPlan puts their resources.  The inside is more important and will have alot more close up views.

 

Anyhow - the solution that will work for us to deal with the limitations of the 3D on the exterior on this current job is what I think somebody mentioned before but I couldn't find - maybe got removed - make a symbol out of a Sketchup or DWG file.  Draw the window you have in your library or make new ones if you want and then draw the symbol over the top of it:

 Softplan window with SKP file in Plan View shows Symbol.PNG   6.27KB   0 downloads

The symbol needs to be made of some kind of shape so I used a box - it's what you see in purple.  Maybe could use a lighter color or a line but it needs thickness as you will adjust it.

 

The symbol needs to be linked to a 3D object.  When linking make sure you don't use the dimensions of the object, that way the object will adjust to fill the box you've made the symbol based on.   I couldn't find a great casement window on 3D warehouse but grabbed this one to test:

 Softplan window with SKP file in 3DW.PNG   90.87KB   0 downloads

 

When creating the symbol you can set the textures so the window is the color you want and the glazing is transparent.  That way it comes in right you don't need to deal with that in 3D Material texture assignments.

 

Next change Frame Thickness, Sash Thickness, Base Thickness, and Bead Thickness in the Opening Options menu of your Drawing Options:

 Softplanopening-options-clear frame.png   66.73KB   0 downloads

By making these thin and narrow you are making the opening clear so that you can see the entire Sketchup/DWG window.  It actually makes it quite easy as the drawing options will take care of this for every opening.

 

Next adjust the window from 3D to put it into position.  It is important to have left the "Use 3D Symbol Dimensions" Unchecked.  If you don't you can't stretch them into position if you need to tweak:

 

 Symbol Windows.png   54.57KB   0 downloads

 

After doing that you can pretty much do what you want to the window within the space and it looks good from both outside and inside.  The windows you see alongside are the best I could do with the available options, but I'm happy with the fix:

 Softplan window with SKP file in opening.JPG   95.74KB   0 downloads

 Softplan window with SKP file in opening inside.PNG   115.25KB   0 downloads

 

The other thing that is nice is that adding exterior trim (or interior) keystones, soldiers, etc don't interfere since the 3D symbol is inside of all that.

 

It didn't take too long to copy the symbol to the other windows, they are the same elevation and copied easily.

 

This might not be the best way but it works in a pinch.  If you have any suggestions I can edit the post.

 

Hopefully 2024 has some advance in windows, but if it's too big an undertaking in this release I'll be OK.

 

 

[Keith Almond]

... The problem is that with all the super realistic 3D that we're starting to be able to enjoy  ...

 

Personally, I have no idea why so many people feel the NEED for super realistic 3D. Aren't we just doing drawings so the customer can picture a "concept". And so the builder can build it?

 

Requiring Softplan to add more and more exacting detail (like specific window frame detailing) is - in my opinion - complete overkill, that can only make an already expensive programme even more expensive.

 

The exception being people who are selling a design (e.g. Sam Morgan) ... In that case I can see the advantage of bringing it into a programme like Lumion, and making a photo realistic item to sell.

 

For the rest of us, aren't you just spending more and more time creating more and more detail that you're not getting paid for? I even show my windows opaque so I don't need to spend time (that I'm not getting paid for) modelling the interior.

 

I hasten to add, this is not a shot at any particular person ... more of a comment on the situation in general.