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#1 Thomas Roman

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 12:02 PM

My first clothes chute... after all these years..

 

do these need to be fire-rated?... plan checker seems to think so..

 

so what's the best way to do that?...

 

fire-rated doors top and bottom?... do suppliers provide those that way?

 

field built shaft enclosure? ... or do suppliers provide those too?

 

if you've done these, please let me know your experience... THANKS in advance..



#2 Keith Almond

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 01:09 PM

In Ontario, If they are in a single residence, they are not required to be fire-rated.

 

What sort of building are you talking about here?


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#3 Michael Roman

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 03:25 PM

We are not required to have them fire rated for single family residence either.

I always had our hvac contractor bend up a chute out of sheet metal just like a duct and we would install it in the wall before they drywalled.  Worked quite well as long as it was in a 2x6 wall, 2x4 walls are just too tight to get clothes to drop smoothly.

 



#4 Thomas Roman

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 03:40 PM

residence... yep, that plan check comment surprised me...

 

I can't find anything in the California Residential Code (essentially the IRC) ...



#5 randolph cohn

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 04:45 PM

tom,

 

i called carole chapman and she says YEP ! 

they need to be fire rated and child proofed with a form of dampers between floors.

 

she's sending you the previous and present codes on laundry chutes.

 

and if anyone knows the codes,  carole does,

being she was past president of

californias A.I.B.D.


randy

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#6 randolph cohn

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 07:38 PM

you've probably found all this info but what the hey.

 

 

http://publicecodes....12_7_par173.htm

 

http://publicecodes....12_7_par174.htm

 

http://publicecodes....12_7_par175.htm

 

http://publicecodes....12_7_par176.htm

 

http://publicecodes....12_7_par177.htm

 

http://publicecodes....12_7_par178.htm

 

http://publicecodes....12_7_par179.htm

 

smoke activated doors:

http://publicecodes....12_7_par248.htm


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#7 Thomas Roman

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 10:32 PM

Thats what I will use to respond to plan checker.. thanks..

But all that is from the IBC.. not the IRC... California uses CRC for residential projects which is based on IRC, not IBC...

I don't think those chapter 7 provisions are part of the residential code... the residential code is super short... maybe it's referenced...eh, I'll look into that further..

thanks again...

#8 Thomas Roman

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 11:37 PM

Hmm... even IBC 713.13 with laundry cute requirements contains an exception that says it does not apply to single family dwellings.....

I'm still stumped where the plan checker is seeing a fire rated requirement... unless it's covered by the fire blocking provisions...

unfortunately the plan checker did not reference the applicable section... I'm tempted to respond by asking for the applicable section in the CRC..

#9 Keith Almond

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 06:15 AM

Yes,  noticed that too.

 

I would have though that an exception meant just that ...

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Keith

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#10 Todd Williard

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 07:35 AM

We use the IRC in pa for residential and the IBC for commercial. Our laundry chutes in single family do not need to be fire rated. We have sent the chutes thru sheet metal, sono tubes or straight down thru the floor into a cabinet below. When the chute has ended in a ceiling door, we use spring loaded hinges that require you to pull on a chord to open the chute door.


V11-V2022


#11 Sam Morgan

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Posted 02 May 2015 - 04:41 PM

Here in Utah, the legislature passed a new law last year that plan reviewers are REQUIRED to site the specific code reference if they find a deficiency on plans.   Inspectors are required to do the same thing during an inspection.   If they can't prove that is in the code or required by city ordinance, they can't enforce it.


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#12 randolph cohn

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Posted 02 May 2015 - 04:53 PM

around here in the san francisco bay area,

 

the plan checkers are god and they overrule everything.

 

i had to go over there head twice to the state and i was lucky.

 

the state inspector told me to have the local inspector call

them if they had a problem with their ruling.

note: we built it the way the state inspector said we could.

 

and i made sure i never had those local inspectors again.

 

their mean !

 

and how many people have had a  "PLAN CHECKER" from 500 miles away

check your drawings ?


randy

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#13 randolph cohn

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Posted 02 May 2015 - 05:35 PM

here's something i received from a softplan user and retired fireman in california

 

he won't sign this but it's the best he can remember.  sounded like he was nipping when i spoke with him.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Hi Randy,
 
I don't know or unable to remember off hand (nipping)  if I ever knew that information. If the chute drops down to an unconditioned level (not a garage), you will need to detail how the stud cavities are insulated with the insulation touching on all of its six sides. In other words top & bottom plate, and left right studs touch the insulation on 4 of its sides and drywall on both sides of the wall are the other two for a total of six sides. The insulation needs to meet the 2013 energy code which specifies R-15 for 2x4 walls with 1" continuous rigid insulation to the exterior side (chute side) for new construction. If this project is existing + addition/alteration the title 24 model might be able to omit the rigid insulation requirement. If this is Also it needs to be air sealed to the exterior side. Then as you said 1 hour fire latching and gasketed door. That's about all I can think of for conditioned to unconditioned space. If it is conditioned level to conditioned level, I believe it would be treated like interior stairs with no requirements. Maybe something about out swing doors with a high enough sill that kids won't fall into.

retired-fireman - california

randy

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#14 Keith Almond

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Posted 02 May 2015 - 06:15 PM

In Ontario the Plan Checkers are City Employed Building Inspectors. The Ontario Building Code tried to empower Independent Code Authorities, and I suspect that someone said that that may lead to corruption. So the Code was immediately changed to say that the Independent Code Authorities had to be employed by the municipality NOT the person making the Permit application. I know that a few people qualified, but I have yet to hear of anyone who has been used as an Independent since the Code Change, and that was in the 2006 Code. Apparently the City Building Inspectors don't want anyone else doing their jobs ... Go figure.

 

Although the Building Inspectors think they are GOD - and the Province actually stand behind them most of the way by saying that the Local Inspectors interpretation of the Code is the way it is going to be enforced - in reality, they do find it VERY hard to enforce something that they can't give you a reference for. Most of our Local Municipalities have very good Chief Building Officials who will at least make an effort to be fair if we think that we have been treated unfairly. Sometimes we win, and sometimes we don't, but we have to deal with the same officials the next time, so we have to choose our battles reasonably carefully. Overall, I feel that the Local Officials do a good job, and to be honest a really thankless one.


Keith

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#15 randolph cohn

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Posted 02 May 2015 - 06:54 PM

keith,

 

you can say it like it is,

 

your local building officials "aren't" allowed on splash.  :ph34r:

 

 


randy

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#16 Keith Almond

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Posted 02 May 2015 - 07:05 PM

No, but they can read it as a guest ...


Keith

There are 10 types of people in this world ....... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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#17 Gary Hood

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 10:06 AM

Well, this might get me in hot water here, but i was one of those "God" like creatures in my past life!! :lol:  That is to say, i was both a Plan Checker & an Inspector. I have heard of corruption taking place elsewhere, but where i worked, we always had to be ready to defend our calls. That meant referencing the appropriate code section. There was no 'making things up'.

Back to the subject, here in BC, if the chute is in a SFD there is no requirement for firestops in a laundry chute, just the same as a set of stairs (what's the difference?) Besides, how would the laundry get down?



#18 Gary McKeon

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 06:44 PM

If the chute is lined with either metal or continuous gyp. bd. to the lower level then no, it does not have to be rated. If there is a side opening to it at any point then yes, it would be considered a transfer point for fire or smoke to a different level. No side opening then it really isn't any different than an open stairs to the floor above/ below. I have never heard of them having to be rated. That would be a nightmare and not worth it.



#19 John Atchley

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 02:22 PM

All I can add is that when I built one for my own home years ago (laminate on plywood at least12x12) the first time I threw a load of sheets down and wen to shut the door, the suction sucked the door right off its hinges!


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#20 Michael Collazo

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 02:42 PM

It makes no sense to fire rate a clothes chute if it is within the same dwelling. We are not protecting it from property or hazardous use. I am sure a plans examiner who has not seen one in a while and has had to review lots of fire rated chases would assume it needed it.

 

On a side note, I grew up with a clothes chute that went from our second story common bathroom down to the basement laundry room. It was about 24" square. Me and my buddies used to jump down it and land on top of the clothes until my grandmother had a neat idea to move the stack just before I landed. This was about a 28' fall onto the concrete. Well at least now I know where my thrill seeking started...


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