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Noting up Plan Sets

Plan Set Overlay Notes

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#1 Keith Almond

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 11:48 AM

It is very difficult to add notes to a drawing in a plan set if you can't see where all the other elements on the page are, and they can't be adjusted from within the plan set. Is it possible to introduce a feature similar to "Overlay" so that we can see the location all the other elements on the page.
 

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#2 Keith Almond

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 07:15 AM

Typically our construction notes are added somewhere close to where they are relevant, rather than a single page of construction notes. I don't think there's any way I can get this to work using plan sets. See attached multi-drawing.

 

If you note up all the plans separately, they can make positioning on drawing sheets awkward (Read that as almost impossible) without keep going back to the plans and rearranging the notes. I have been adding construction notes on a drawing called notes that is part of a multi-drawing. That way, one set of notes can be arranged on all the drawings at one go. Now using plan sets, I'm having trouble ... Lots of Trouble ... May even give it up and go back to multi-drawings. Not sure whether the disadvantages of plan sets outweigh the advantages.

 

What is the best way to add full construction notes to the plan sets.

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#3 Tom McConnell

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 09:03 AM

Please see:  http://softplan.com/...s-to-plan-sets/


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#4 Sam Morgan

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 09:14 AM

Exactly the reason that I don't use plan sets.   I'll continue to use multi's...much faster with how I have things set up.



#5 Chris Stewart

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 09:20 AM

I almost never use plan sets. Multi-drawings work much better. About the only time I use plan sets is to send out rough rendered elevations

 

Wow is that your screen settings -I would find that extraordinarily hard to read. 


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#6 Keith Almond

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 09:41 AM

It's how it's evolved, and I suppose what you get used to. I've always worked on black backgrounds. I find it's not as tiring on the eyes, and every colour is customised for the black. They are 3 - 24" x 36" sheets too.

 

You're right though .... Although plan sets have some advantages, I'm beginning to believe that going back to multi-drawings may be easier. I've just switched to plans sets, and have done two or three projects as plans sets, and there are some great features - it just falls apart at points - being able to add construction notes is one of them!!!! - If my construction notes was a single specification that just gets added as page 1, then that would work fine. However, I believe that that is lazy. Typically the ones I've seen done like that are always generic and never edited. I believe that the specification should always be custom tailored to the project.

 

May have to bite the bullet and switch back to multi-drawings though,


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#7 Gary Hood

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 10:13 AM

Looking at your example, it seems to me that you tried to cram everything on only 3 sheets. If you split the elevations, say into 2 sheets, you would have enough room for your general notes. So, instead of only 3 sheets, try 5-6 (or more). It also helps to 'uncluter' the drawings. Not trying to be too critical, just my observation. Cheers, Gary



#8 Keith Almond

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 10:49 AM

Sorry Gary, not an option.

 

I could spread it out, but that's only curing the symptom NOT the cause. Personally, I dislike drawings wasting space and conversely, I actually like the look of drawings that fill the available space - Takes me back to when I was hand-drawing them. Practically, most of our Contractors complain about drawings being on 3 sheets - 5 or 6 would send them ballistic. Besides that, they always lose (or don't bother to read) some pages. If I could get everything on one page I would. It makes it harder for the contractor to say "I didn't see that". Besides that, I really don't want to print out dozens of 24" x 36" sheets every time I make a revision to a drawing.

 

Ideally I'd like to be able to to overlay a drawing over a plan set so I can see where everything is, and arrange my drawings/notes/details accordingly.


Keith

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#9 Ron Globke

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 12:14 PM

Plan Sets would be a whole lot easier if when you crop you had an option to select and area instead of having to pull in all four sides.  Just like on multi-drawings when you indicate what to print.  


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#10 Thomas Davis

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 01:55 PM

 

I have been adding construction notes on a drawing called notes that is part of a multi-drawing. That way, one set of notes can be arranged on all the drawings at one go. 

 

 

You can use that same "notes" drawing in your plan set. Just save your "notes" drawing as a separate drawing, just like you would for a multi-drawing, and drop it into your plan set pages wherever you want it to be positioned.

If anything needs to be modified in the "notes" drawing, it will update on all your plan set pages, because it is being pulled from that one "notes" drawing, just like it would in a multi-drawing.



#11 Keith Almond

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 02:41 PM

Again, That won't work Tommy. The notes are IMPOSSIBLE to locate like that as it would mean that each note will be in the same place on each drawing.

 

Each drawing in the set is intended to have selected parts of the note drawing. So I'll have to have Notes 1, Notes 2 and Notes 3, each of which would be different. And you still can't see where it's located in relation to the other drawings in the set. It would be semi-workable if you could move each note within the plan set, but you can't. So you have to go back to each note drawing and adjust each note until it's in the right place on the plan set. As I said earlier .... Working Blind.

 

The notes that I need to "distribute" look like this:

Attached Thumbnails

  • ‎March-‎11-‎15_ - 16h42m35s_001.png

Keith

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#12 Thomas Davis

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 03:31 PM

Again, That won't work Tommy. The notes are IMPOSSIBLE to locate like that as it would mean that each note will be in the same place on each drawing.

 

Each drawing in the set is intended to have selected parts of the note drawing. So I'll have to have Notes 1, Notes 2 and Notes 3, each of which would be different. And you still can't see where it's located in relation to the other drawings in the set. It would be semi-workable if you could move each note within the plan set, but you can't. So you have to go back to each note drawing and adjust each note until it's in the right place on the plan set. As I said earlier .... Working Blind.

 

The notes that I need to "distribute" look like this:

 

You can bring your "notes" drawing into each individual plan set "page" and scale and position them anywhere you want. They do not have to all be in the same location.

Also you could "crop" the notes drawing to show only the notes you wanted to on any specific page.

 

Example - if you only wanted to show the first two columns on one plan set page, and columns 3 and 4 on another plan set page, you could.

 

I also don't understand your comment about not being able to see where it is located. Everything I bring into a plan set page I can move around and position it where I want.

 

Example - if I bring in a floor plan, I can scale it at 1/4" and position it in the lower right corner. I can bring in a front elevation and position it in the upper right corner at 1/2" scale. I can then bring in "notes" and have them positioned on the left hand side of the page. I can see all 3 drawings and position them wherever I want without leaving the plan set page.

 

Now if I want to EDIT anything, I then have to go back to the individual drawings, (unlike multi-drawings that can be edited in place), but anywhere I placed my "notes" page would then automatically be updated on my plan set pages.



#13 Keith Almond

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 05:57 PM

You can bring your "notes" drawing into each individual plan set "page" and scale and position them anywhere you want. They do not have to all be in the same location.

Also you could "crop" the notes drawing to show only the notes you wanted to on any specific page.

Example - if you only wanted to show the first two columns on one plan set page, and columns 3 and 4 on another plan set page, you could.

I hadn't thought about crop that will definitely work. So yes, I can make it work with only 1 "Notes" drawing. Thanks - That helps a lot.

I also don't understand your comment about not being able to see where it is located. Everything I bring into a plan set page I can move around and position it where I want.

Example - if I bring in a floor plan, I can scale it at 1/4" and position it in the lower right corner. I can bring in a front elevation and position it in the upper right corner at 1/2" scale. I can then bring in "notes" and have them positioned on the left hand side of the page. I can see all 3 drawings and position them wherever I want without leaving the plan set page.

Now this is where everything goes pear shaped. Because I'm not adding the notes in columns, but distributing them about to suit the drawing, I can see where they are on the plan set, but invariably each individual note is going to need repositioning, and adjusting in "wrap". (Don't know whether anyone has noticed - But if you add notes directly on the plan set, adjust changes the size not the wrap). I can of course reposition the whole drawing, but not individual parts of the drawing. So to adjust just a single note, I have to go back to the notes drawing, and adjust it "Blind", because I cannot now see where it fits now between the multiple plans and details on the plan set. Then back to the plan set and back to the note and .... etc. Until the single note is positioned and wrapped correctly. I then have to do this again and again and again. Until every note has been positioned and wrapped in the right place.

Now if I want to EDIT anything, I then have to go back to the individual drawings, (unlike multi-drawings that can be edited in place), but anywhere I placed my "notes" page would then automatically be updated on my plan set pages.
Agreed!
 
Now, I think I may have a workable solution - Of course I won't know until I get back to work and give it a shot - although I'm sure I can get it to work eventually, but it will necessitate me changing to a white screen .... yes, I knew that was going to happen eventually.
 
How does, this sound.
 
1). Export each page of the plan set individually as a pdf with no construction notes.
2). Add each page to the "Notes" drawing as a pdf on a locked layer. So it works like an overlay. That's why the white screen, because the pdf is (of course) going to have black text ,,, won't work on the black screen. Since I assume the pdf's don't have a background.
3). Then I can distribute the notes anywhere I want, and know that they cleared the underlying drawings .... 
4). Adjust to each page, and adjust crop to suit ... Thanks, Tommy.
5). Turn off PDF layer.
 
Okay. Does that sound workable?

Keith

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#14 Keith Almond

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 03:19 PM

Okay ... For anyone not turned to another channel yet!

 

The above method worked very well for me. Certainly well enough that I'm going to persevere with Plan sets.  Figuring out the notes really helped.The benefits of Live Elevations and 3D views etc. are enough to encourage me.

 

I did have to change my colour scheme to white though (actually light grey), as the PDF's (as suspected) don't have a background so I couldn't see the drawings anyway.

 

Thank you to everyone for the input.

 

If anyone is interested (or even cares at this point), this is what the final version looked like:

Attached Thumbnails

  • ‎March-‎12-‎15_ - 17h17m57s_001.png

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Keith

There are 10 types of people in this world ....... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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#15 John Pepper

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 03:51 PM

 

 

I can see where they are on the plan set, but invariably each individual note is going to need repositioning, and adjusting in "wrap". 

You can add a single note drawing to a single Plan Set page multiple times in multiple locations  Therefor you can position and crop the notes on it anywhere you want on the page rather than just in their fixed location on the source drawing.

 

In the attached image a drawing with Note A and Note B was inserted into the page 4 times and cropped 3 times.

 

 

However.. is there a big advantage of doing this over just putting the notes in a speed note library and drawing them on the plan set page where you want them?

 

 

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  • noteAandB.png


#16 Keith Almond

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 07:08 PM

John, Yes, I'm aware you can add single notes multiple times, but that's not how I do my drawings.

 

I like to go through a process, and add every single speed note and custom note that is applicable to a project NOT a single plan - (as post #11), and then distribute them around the drawing, where they are relevant. I really dislike the single page of generic standard notes that some of the plan companies provide as a construction specification.

 

The issue wasn't adding the notes or cropping them, but rather trying to find out where they were in space on the Plan Set - because as I've tried to explain, I can't edit them where they are, and I can't see where they are when I edit them.

 

I've tried noting up the drawing and then noting up the section and then etc. etc. but I find it easy to print all the drawings out and then find that I'd missed something or lots of somethings. The issue was arranging one set of notes on three separate plans whilst not being able to see where they were.

 

Now I DO realise that I could add the speed notes directly to the Plan Set. But that's horrible .... It really doesn't work. You can't adjust wrap, and trying to adjust the note at all just resizes the whole thing. And worst of all you can't edit the notes - remember notes applicable to a project. you cannot make a definitive set of speed notes that covers every project. And as I said above --- I'm old and senile and miss notes off.

 

It's just down to the way I like to work - Multi drawings was perfect for a long time. But as we do more and more for the clients, it's easier work with Live Elevations and 3D's

 

This may not be the most elegant way, but it did work for me, and in the absence of other options, I'll stick to it.

 

I don't think I made the issues clear originally, but if anyone can work out an easier way to make the finished product work, I'd love to hear it. 

 

Again, bear in mind, old, senile, stuck in my ways. I want to provide a thorough detailed set of blueprints that will get a client their building permit, I also have enough pride in my work that I want them to look good too.


Keith

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#17 John Pepper

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 06:22 AM

Keith.  

I was just describing a way to position your notes in one source drawing around your inserted plans and elevations and see where they are going.

You don't change the position of the note in the source but rather the position of the view to it on the page.. 

You are right in that you can't edit them on the plan set page and change their wrap, when you do it this way, but you can see them there and position the view to them around the drawings as you please.

 

Regarding notes on Plan Set pages:

 

 

You can't adjust wrap, and trying to adjust the note at all just resizes the whole thing. And worst of all you can't edit the notes

You can explode Speed Note (symbols) into Notes.  Notes seem to have the same wrap behavior on a plan set page as they do on other drawings. (at least they do in 2016). You can edit them. You can also add notes directly.

 

 

 

 



#18 Keith Almond

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 06:40 AM

John, Apologies, you can adjust the notes. Must have not exploded the speed note originally. But note size is an issue - Seems like it would take a bit of juggling in .001"increments to get it where I want it, as there doesn't seem to be any way to define the standard note size, and it's not the size I want it to be.

 

However.. is there a big advantage of doing this over just putting the notes in a speed note library and drawing them on the plan set page where you want them?

 

 

To my mind there is. All my standard notes are already in a speed note library, and as I said earlier, there's no such thing as a standard set of notes that covers every project, so invariably speed notes need exploding and editing as the project demands.

 

if I keep switching between drawings. To add the foundation note to the plan and the footing note to the section (or where ever), I find I miss notes. I'm much more comfortable as I said earlier, having a full set of notes and distributing them.

 

Still find adding speed notes to the plan set itself awkward and I'm uncomfortable with it.

 

Thanks for the input.


Keith

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#19 John Pepper

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 08:57 AM

I'm sure this wont work with everyone's work flow and wont solve all issues.. but here is a quick and dirty video of how one might combine the two methodologies.

 http://youtu.be/tAFYDa8Z4A4


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#20 Keith Almond

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 09:40 AM

Thanks John, I can see how that would work.


Keith

There are 10 types of people in this world ....... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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